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This was written by Robert Lamm, who is a keyboard player and singer for Chicago. It's about trying to write a song, with the title referring to the time of day: either 3:35AM (25 to 4) or 3:34AM (26 to 4). Lamm explained on The Chris Isaak Hour: "I was living with a bunch of hippies up above Sunset Strip. One of the advantages of this particular house was that it was in the Hollywood Hills and I could look out over the city late at night. I wanted to try to describe the process of writing the song that I was writing. So, 'waiting for the break of day, searching for something to say, flashing lights against the sky' - there was a neon sign across the city. That song came from the fact that it was 25 or 6 to 4am in the morning when I looked at my watch - I was looking for a line to finish the chorus.
Most songs that were written, especially in the early days, whenever I got them to the band and we started rehearsing them, that's when the songs took shape - once these guys got hold of them. There was definitely a lot of raw material, I thought it was a song when I wrote the words down, I wrote the changes down and I brought the charts to rehearsal, but it wasn't really a song until they all played it."
This quickly became a showcase song for Chicago's horn section, which featured on many of their hits from the '60s and '70s. Three of the founding members that have been with the band since its inception are trumpet player Lee Loughnane, sax player Walter Parazaider, and trombonist James Pankow.
There are a lot of unsubstantiated rumors regarding the meaning behind this song's lyrics. A popular rumor is that "6 to 4" was a nickname for LSD, because if you dropped acid at 6 PM, the effects of the drug would wear off by 4 AM, 10 hours later.
This still gets a lot of play by college pep bands. The horns and tempo make it a great fit for sporting events.
The band was previously known as Chicago Transit Authority, which was the name of their first album. They shortened their name after the actual Chicago transit authority objected, and began releasing albums with their name followed by a roman numeral (Chicago II, Chicago III, Chicago IV, etc.). They did this throughout their career, even as they morphed from horn-driven rock to adult contemporary ballads ("Hard For Me To Say I'm Sorry," "Baby What A Big Surprise") in the '80s.
This is usually the last song Chicago plays at their concerts. On their tours with Earth, Wind & Fire, both bands usually play it as the encore. (thanks, Deek - Livingston, TX)
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until you learn to play guitar and realize what a genious Jimmy Page is, shut your stupid f--kin mouth.
Chicago's "25 or 6 to 4" was recorded Aug 1969 and released June 1970
Zeppelin's "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" was recorded Oct 1968 and released in January 1969
So Zeppelin not only recorded BIGTLY earlier they released it before Chicago had recorded 25r624.
There is a strong possibility Chicago were influenced by listening to Zeppelin on the radio since BIGLY would have been on the airways for atleast 7 months! So yeah Chicago ripped of Zeppelin, but I would expect not intentionally. Maybe they felt that riffs wern't something that belonged to one group but the whole music community.
what about BIGLY itself? Was it ripped of another artist? Well, depend on what part your talking about. The lyrics were taken from another song by that sounded nothing like BIGLY. The MUSIC however is original to Jimmy Page. In fact it was one of the songs he was working on before forming zeppelin and worked with other artist in brief.
We also have to keep in mind that Jimmy Page was a studio session guitarist before his fame, where he was employed by a LOT of bands to play guitar in studios, and he is unoffically credited with a LOT of riffs that upcoming bands used in their songs but never gave him credit or royalties. Maybe he is entitled to use some of the riffs...don'cha'think?
Consider this line..
"Should I try to do some more 25 or 6 to 4?"
Read it as "Should I try to drop some more acid?"
Here is my proof:
In the movie Captain Newman, MD (1963), Gregory Peck injects a patient with a drug, and there is close up of the bottle. The label says "Lysergic Acid Diethylamide, 25 or 6 to 4" I have seen this scene at least three times.
It is not totally clear what the term means. 25 is easy to explain: The term LSD comes from the initials of the German for lysergic acid diethylamide, or Lysersäure Diethylamid. "The number "25" following it has many myths attached to it, such as it was the 25th form of LSD that Hofmann tried, or it was his 25th attempt to make LSD. From my own experience with chemical companies that are allied with pharmaceutical houses, I had assumed that the chemical name (which might be a mouthful for the pharmacologist) was simply replaced with a pronounceable code number equivalent. But the answer here is yet simpler. Hofmann, in his LSD, My Problem Child wrote: "In 1938, I produced the twenty fifth substance in a series of lysergic acid derivatives: lysergic acid diethylamide, abbreviated LSD-25 ... for laboratory usage."
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml
(But then at the same document we find a possible clue:)
"Within a few years of the discovery of the extraordinary potency of LSD, a large number of close analogues were synthesized by Hofmann and his allies at Sandoz. Over the following decade many were tested in humans, both in patients and healthy subjects, with the qualitative descriptions and dosages published in the medical literature."
Zeppelin reccorded Zeepelin I w/ Babe..Leave you in 1968 and released it on January 69, so it would seem that Lamm (Chicago) had the opertunity to hear it first from their favorite record store. How would Page Hear it if Chicago didn't release it until 1970? Zeppelin did great rips, but I dont think this is one of them. They are both great, but lets keep the facts straight.
Other than LSD-25 being the actual abbreviation for it, there's nothing in the process of making it, even a model number for a vacuum pump, I can think of that has anything to do with 25r624.
And Lamm talks candidly about the band's history with drugs so I have no reason to think he's lying about the song being about struggling to write a song and the clock saying it was 25 or (2)6 to 4 (3:34 or 3:35). Nothing about 3:54. And remember, there were no digital clocks then and the minute hand was often ambiguous in its readability. At 3:34 and a half the minute hand would be in between the two times. And s the band was very open about their drug use, it is reasonable to think he may have been on something at the time. And 25 or 26 parts water to 4 parts heroin is not "the proper mixture."
And Gary from Chicago, IL seems intent on arguing that Lamm himself is wrong on what the time thing means. First of all, yes, LSD-25 is the common LSD out there, but the word "or" in "25 OR 6 to 4" then should be the title. And why would Lamm say it was about the time and lie about WHAT time, Gary?
It's like he says. It's about trying to write just before dawn. And he was probably on LSD or meth or something, too. So what? The song is STILL quite obvioulsy about writing a song at 3:34 o 3:35.
Seems pretty simple to me.
I can see why you would interpret it as "writing a song" and you can also understand why they may write something like that in a CD case... it's not odd that a rock group would take drugs, but still you might not want to just blatantly say it for publicity sake.
Also, in speaking to my father and his friends, who were in their twenties and thirties when this came out, they all took it as being about being high. 25 or 6 to 4 could definitely be a reference to 25r624 (LSD), or it could be a time... maybe it's a double meaning?
Codeine, as a generic chemical name, doesn't even HAVE a tablet code. It's possible that out of the dozens of tablets from different manufacturers that contain codeine, one of them MIGHT have the number "25" in it.
But it makes a lot more sense to assume that not every song is about drugs, and that "25 or (2)6 to 4" refers to a time.
stevie
-shine NY, NY
Well, as the Beatles Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds was obviously a reference to LSD (English currency at the time, Pounds, Shillings and Pence - £.s.d. - referred to in the common tongue as L.s.d. it could NOT have been about drugs.
It's also pretty common for people to sit cross-legged on the floor at 26 to 4 in the morning - or was it 25, and ponder if they should do some more - lyrics?
Peter B+, Munich,Germany
The wah-wah solo is my favorite wah-wah ever. White Room by Cream gets honorable mention.
"25 or 6 to 4" refers to the proper mixture of water to heroin in an injectable shot: 25 or 26 parts water to 4 parts heroin.
It isn't a date; isn't a time; isn't a formula for LSD. All that is as bogus as can be.
Leave it to an old fart like me to set the record straight!
No-one who has taken LSD several or more times could possibly not see this.
The meanings are NOT even particularly well-hidden - IF you ahve taken LSD several or more times.
GLARINGLY and UNMISTAKEABLY obvious.
IF... that is.
If not, then it is quite easy to discount that and decide a more likely explanation is more plausible.
Especially if the songwriter is asked to publicly explain lyrics about illegal drug useage, during a hyper-reactionary anti-drug era with no upside to being honest about it.
Besides, he knew that those who would understand already did, and those who didn't never would.
And in the big picture, it makes no difference either way.
:-)
"Waiting for the break of day"
LSD nearly always causes major insomnia - this is in fact a major feature that all LSD users prepared for on every trip.
"Searching for something to say"
LSD causes a flood of thoughts that go by too quickly to grab, and simultaneously makes communicating them verbally both impossible and pointless.
"Flashing lights against the sky"
I needn't explain that one much.
"Giving up I close my eyes"
The trip is lasting longer than expected - the eyes-open visual hallucinations are still continuing - "giving up" means that the eyes-closed hallucinations will do just as well, since eyes-open isn't going to be much different till the LSD wears off a little more.
"Sitting cross-legged on the floor"
Simply what he was doing. Finding a comfortable position is frequently a challenge. :0)
"25 or 6 to 4"
OK, here it comes folk, the definitive answer to what this phrase actually means.
I've never been in any doubt or confusion about this since the song came out.
The first time I heard it, I immediately "got it", and it is the only only explantion that makes perfect sense with every single word of the song.
However, only experienced LSD veterans will grasp this intuitively.
Everyone else can accept on faith, or deny by skepticism.
Makes NO difference either way though. :-)
"25" IS LSD, period. LSD was commonly called nmany things back then, and 25 was one of the more common slang terms.
"6 to 4" IS a reference to the EXACT time on the clock. It is 3:54 AM, period.
Time goes by UNBELIEVABLY slowly on LSD.
A 12 hour trip may seem, subjectively, like days and days, or centuries.
Someone beginning to come down from an acid trip is ACUTELY aware of the time, on a second to second basis, if they care to be.
So...
"25, or 6 to 4"
translates as
"LSD, or six minutes to four in the morning?"
This is a choice he is facing.
LSD - or the time.
The choice is between two realities in absolute conflict.
The reality of the LSD trip, to continue it, or, the reality of "reality", as exemplified by the clock and time, that is, he is now beginning to "come down", it is almost 4 AM, and if he does NOT take more LSD, he commits to re-entering normal reality, and the attendant consequences of the trip he's ALREADY taken.
OR, he can take MORE LSD, and postpone the inevitable a bit longer, by extending the trip.
The person is faced with the knowledge that he must either face some consequences NOW (by choosing "6 to 4", the real-world time), or face in all likelihood WORSE consequences LATER, by taking more LSD NOW ("25").
25 or 6 to 4.
Good grief, this is not just obvious (if one has taken LSD multiple times) it is way way way beyond obvious.
"Staring blindly into space"
A very cliched and common state of being as an acid trip is ending. Again, past users just recognize this instantly.
"Getting up to splash my face"
Again...
"Wanting just to stay awake"
Again... all of this, while resembling any number of possible mundane events like insomnia, are such absolutely and eloquently PERFECT descriptors of the LSD 'down-side', that... never mind...
"Wondering how much I can take"
An LSD double-entendre!!!
1. "How much I can take" - as in human endurance - LSD really wrings you out!
2. "How much I can take" - as in total doseage of additional LSD, should he decide against "6 to 4"
"Should I try to do some more"
In context, the very NEXT WORD after "more", is 25.
Last verse.
"Feeling like I ought to sleep
Spinning room is sinking deep
Searching for something to say
Waiting for the break of day
25 or 6 to 4
25 or 6 to 4"
The very fact that the clock does not advance to "5 to 4" during the duration of the entire song is evidence that this is indeed LSD we're talking about.
Time frames are vastly expanded, and it is absolutely within context logical that this entire sequence of thoughts would occur within the span of less than one minute.
The song ends with the quandry being repeated twice, leaving the listener unknowing of what choice was made.
The notion that this is about insomnia while writing a song is so grossly funny and surrealisticly Orwellian, it boggles the mind.
And, the idea of a work shift from 6 to 4 is in the right direction, it really misses entirely the delicious nature of the very quandry the writer id referring to.
Again, in the real world, understanding the lyrics of one drug song from a bygone era is of no import at all.
However, I just wanted to get the record staright once and for all on the web, and then forget about it.
;-)
Crow
And as a matter of fact I play Guitar, Drums, and Bass :)
An old hippie stoner, and Chicago super-freak, explained this to me...
That's my story... and I'm sticking to it. :)
My high school band this song last year :)
I was the only one in the 'audience' who recognized it probebly O_o.
It's really, really, really obvious if you read the lyrics and talk to some old hippies. Chicago (in the 70's anyway), surprisingly, had a dark edge to them, which is made more clear through this song.
It's worth noting that this band was no stranger to drug experimentation...or for that matter, abuse. In fact, it was a coke-fueled late night party where the phenomenal guitar Terry Kath accidentally took his own life in the classic "See, it's not loaded!" mistake.
My thoughts about this song: If you've taken LSD, you can see the possibility of the song being about the drug. If you've never dropped acid, then I'm sorry...you're in no position to argue about whether or not the song is a drug reference since you have no personal experience with which to relate in this context.
He's sitting cross-legged on the floor because he's writing and he's splashing his face because he's sleepy.
Plus, where would these guys in the band have learned all this chemistry in the pre-web days?
I have no idea what 25 refers to but it could be in reference to LSD. Quaaludes are a drug that can be taken to ease the coming down of tripping and allow you to fall asleep.
The lyrics of the song make perfect sense if you think of it this way.
Maybe a happy medium is where the title's meaning lies. And just maybe the song title has a play on words, representing both possibilities; with a hidden message of 25R624 (the chemical designation for LSD25), which sounds factual (I'm really not going to search to see if that's true or not, but it sounds good to me)... at the same time, representing the time; since the only grammatical way to make sense of the title, would be the physical time; 3:35 AM (25 to 4) or 3:34 AM (26 to 4), because the title does have OR, not R, and the word TO, not the number 2. In the 60's and the early 70's, many songs had lyrics that had dual meanings (e.g. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds), whether or not the writers meant it specifically, or if they did it without thinking thoroughly the purpose of the dual meanings. BUT, it is quite obvious that the Beetles meant LSD with Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. And just maybe, Chicago thought of their title of having dual meanings as well.
The specific time 3:30ish may have been when they wrote or experienced the lyrics, and the coincidental lyrics regarding acid could be a hidden message to someone who has used acid, and maybe that's the way they wanted, a kind of parablesecret that only dope heads would know, and so they decided to write the title to have the dual meaning. After all, those were the days when lyrics, song titles, album cover art meant more than they do today. And I also want to add, those were the days when lyrics could be anything, and freewill was given to the listeners to decide what it means. Take for instance 'Looking out my backdoor' by CCR.
Why does everyone have to tie everything to drugs? We all try to find hiden meanings to songs and most times they are all wrong! I have sat and written things and my friends have commented on the meanings of what I have wrote and they are wrong... not even close.Just sit back, listen, enjoy, and don't try to "tag" things. It will only make you crazy when you find yourself wrong.
Jack
Staring blindly into space
Getting up to splash my face
Wanting just to stay awake
Wondering how much I can take
Should have tried to do some more
25 or 6 to 4
"Sitting crosslegged on the floor" and "splashing my face, just to stay awake."
Also "Spinning room is sinking deep." I love Chicago but you can tell this is one major drug trip.