Lips of Anvil

by Greg Prato

The early 21st century saw an influx of great rock n' roll documentaries - End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones, Searching for Sugar Man, Last Days Here among them - but certainly at the top of the must-see rock doc list is Anvil! The Story of Anvil, a fascinating, warts-and-all glimpse at the influential Canadian metal act.

Originally formed in the late '70s, Anvil - comprised of singer/guitarist Lips and drummer Robb Reiner, with various other members coming and going over the years - is often credited as one of the founders of what would later be known as "thrash metal" or "speed metal." All you have to do is give a listen to any of their first three albums (1981's Hard 'n' Heavy, 1982's Metal on Metal, and/or 1983's Forged in Fire) for the sonic proof. While the band wallowed in obscurity for many years, the aforementioned Anvil! doc has succeeded in bringing the group back into the spotlight and to a new legion of fans.

Lips chatted with Songfacts about a year after the arrival of Anvil's 15th studio album overall, Hope in Hell, and was up for discussing songwriting, memories of playing shows with some of rock's biggest names, plus the stories behind several metal classics.
Greg Prato (Songfacts): How would you say that songwriting works primarily in Anvil?

Lips: What do you mean?

Songfacts: Is it usually you presenting a riff, or do you just jam with Robb and come up with something?

Lips: Usually I come up with a riff and away we go.

Songfacts: Has there ever been a song that was different than you just coming up with a riff? Maybe some other member contributing something?

Lips: You know what, that's really vague to me. Because I can't really think of anything off hand that somebody else came up with that we did. I don't think we've ever done that. I guess the first album, Dave Allison wrote "I Want You Both (With Me)," but aside from that, I don't think anybody really did. The center of it, it's all me. I'm the only guitar player and writer, really. I mean, Dave would help write lyrics and so forth and maybe sometimes come up with arrangement ideas. But basically, and fundamentally, all the riffs come from me.

Songfacts: Have you ever written a song on an instrument other than guitar?

Lips: No, I can probably say not.

Songfacts: How do you rate Anvil among the leading contributors to what became known as thrash metal?

Lips: I don't know whether I'm in a position to say anything about that. That's for others to make those judgment calls.

Songfacts: I think Anvil was definitely one of the first bands that you could say trailblazed that style of music.

Lips: Yeah, and it's weird, because we didn't look at it as that's what we were doing. All that we were trying to do when we did that was be unique and do something that no one else did or tried. It really is as simple as that. You're not thinking, "Oh, yeah, everybody's going to copy this." You don't start thinking that way. That's pretty, I would say, arrogant.

Songfacts: And something that I don't think I've ever read in a previous interview is you talking about memories of playing that Super Rock '84 Festival in Japan. Because I know in the Anvil movie, they show footage of it.

Lips: Okay. What do you want to know?

Songfacts: Would you say that that was the biggest crowd that Anvil played to up to that point?

Lips: No, not really. The Donington and Reading festivals in the UK were probably bigger as far as attendance is concerned. I mean, Super Rock '84 was the first festival ever held in Japan. That's certainly a monumental aspect. Right? I mean, they didn't really have that previous to that. So we were on that festival. That was a specialty. The attendance was probably not as good as Loud Park is today. I think Loud Park is better attended.

The Donington Festival, the Reading Festival, they had at least 30,000 to 40,000 people. There were other things that we did, playing with Aerosmith, playing with Motörhead. Super Rock '84 for Anvil was when our manager was basically washing his hands of his dirty deeds, so to speak - pulling us out of a record deal and everything that we had going, and giving us our, "Here, guys, here's a token of good luck," and put us on the bill with Super Rock '84, the beginning of the end of having the rug pulled out from underneath our feet.

It's kind of bizarre. We were well ahead of our time and fit in that bill like an elephant fits in a china shop in a certain sense, because, really, we were up there playing songs like "666" when Bon Jovi's up there doing "She's A Little Runaway." It was the beginning of the fragmentation of the whole genre, really. And we kinda didn't fit there.

These are the things I recollect. There were aspects that did fit, but not really. I mean, the other guys didn't wear bondage suits and play their guitars with a vibrator, or played songs like "666." So what can I say?

Songfacts: Looking back at the '80s I always find it interesting that some bands tried to stay current, tried to follow the trends a bit. You look at a band like KISS, they suddenly started sounding a bit like Bon Jovi and those types of bands. And as far as fashion goes, they were also dressing similar. It's interesting how certain bands did that, and then there are other bands, like I guess you could say Motörhead, that did.

Lips: That's right. Absolutely. And it put a big divide in it and a big explosion of genres and sub genres.

Songfacts: Would you say Anvil was caught in the middle there between those two?

Lips: That's right. Because our first albums had aspects of all of those things. It's just that it all fragmented, and it was no longer cool to have aspects of all different things. It was either you're this or you're that, and it was about labeling and dividing and separating. It went through an era of that. But we survived it all, because we basically and fundamentally stuck to our guns and did it the way we wanted to, how we wanted to do it, when we wanted to do it, and didn't really care about how we were labeled or not labeled. Longevity and history speaks for itself.

Songfacts: That's interesting, I've never really thought of it that way. But if I think back to the '80s it seems like that was maybe like suddenly with metal, there were all these different sub genres and categories and things like that.

Lips: And look at where it is today, completely fragmented. How do you know what to listen to? What is good? You've got to start asking yourself, "What do I even like anymore?" All the things you did like you don't like anymore. So then what is new to like? A lot of people are asking themselves that.

Having said that, there's lots of things to like. It has to do with the listener's preferences and how open-minded you are or how close-minded you are. And that's what it all comes down to.

Songfacts: Before that, you mentioned that Anvil played with Aerosmith in the early '80s. What sticks out about those shows?

The shows that Anvil opened for Aerosmith were circa 1982, when the 'Smith was touring in support of their seventh studio effort, Rock in a Hard Place. By this point in the Boston band's career, things were a bit rocky - guitarists Joe Perry and Brad Whitford were no longer in the band, and according to numerous reports over the years (and confirmed in the tell-all biography, Walk This Way), was one of the band's more unpredictable and drug-plagued tours.
Lips: That was actually quite spectacular moments. You get on stage, and before getting on stage, you get the word from Aerosmith's tour manager, "You have to go out and play for an hour tonight. Yeah, no one has your album and no one knows who you are. But good luck, because the Aerosmith guys are going to be late. Steven's not feeling well." And it's a tough room, man. [Laughing] But we survived it. Did well enough and people come to the shows even to this day that saw that. And that says a lot.

Songfacts: What was the inspiration behind that song "Metal on Metal"?

Lips: Initially it was a riff that I came up with, and the sound of the riff made me think of the title "Metal on Metal." It just sounded like that's what was emanating from the guitar. I could actually hear the vocal there. And then in suggesting that, then of course it took about, I don't know, 15 minutes to write the song.

Songfacts: What were some of the crowds' first reactions to hearing that song played live?

Lips: It went over immediately. Immediately.

Interestingly, I definitely recognized it for what it was. I knew that it was one of the very first anthems. That's what we were trying to do and that's what we did. So it was what we desired, and so it came to be.

Sometimes you don't realize where it comes from or how it comes, it just does. And it's magical. You gravitate towards something and you find yourself there. It's not like you plan it. You just end up there. And that's the best music that you could ever achieve. Those are the moments that you're looking for. And if I've discovered anything over the years, is that it happens when you just let it happen rather than when you're trying to create it. As soon as you've tried to create, you don't. So you just don't try, you just let it happen.

It's like that first moment you pick up your guitar for the day and you just start playing, the sound of the guitar and the feel in your hands, the moment, it's a moment of inspiration and you come up with stuff. And that's as simple as what "Metal on Metal" was, it's as simple as what "Hope and Hell" was, in fact. And that's part of where I rediscovered my own magic, is just letting it happen.

Songfacts: What about the song "Forged in Fire"?

Lips: "Forged in Fire" was probably a little bit more labored in a certain sense. As far as inspiration, where did I get the ideas? Well, first of all, musically speaking, it was "Bridge of Sighs" by Robin Trower, and the Rush/Max Webster combination song "Battle Scar." It was a combination of those two pieces that made me go in that direction. I found a riff in that world and I went with it. That's what I found it to be similar to, those two songs, but maybe they're in there because they're in me, and you are what you eat or what you consume. So it could be a bit of that. That's what it makes me think of.

Songfacts: What about "March of the Crabs"?

Lips: "March of the Crabs," I had bought a Gibson ES150, which is basically a deep set ES335, which is the semi-hollow type of Gibson, like Chuck Berry and a number of guitarists have used through the years. Everybody from Eric Clapton to Dave Edmunds, to Alvin Lee, there's a multitude of 335 players, and they're some of my all-time favorite guitarists.

In any case, I had just bought this thing and I sat down in my living room and started playing "March of the Crabs." Now, where I got the idea to call it "March of the Crabs" was the way that my fingers looked on the fretboard when I played the song. It's played with an open string and threaded notes, and you kind of crawl your way up and down the fretboard playing it. So that's how it got its name: it looked like crab feet walking, so I called it "March of the Crabs."

Songfacts: And what about "Thumb Hang"?

Lips: At the time, our band was called Gravestone and we were emulating Black Sabbath because that's what we loved. When we first started we created songs that were dark and very heavy. That was one of them. And I couldn't think of anything darker or heavier than the Spanish Inquisition. So lyrically that's where that was going.

Musically speaking, it's in the same key and much the same feel as "Iron Man." So it is definitely connected to the Black Sabbath roots.

February 23, 2015
Photo credit: Dalila Kriheli

More Songwriter Interviews

Comments

Be the first to comment...

Editor's Picks

Yacht Rock Quiz

Yacht Rock QuizFact or Fiction

Christopher Cross with Deep Purple? Kenny Loggins in Caddyshack? A Fact or Fiction all about yacht rock and those who made it.

Glen Ballard

Glen BallardSongwriter Interviews

Glen Ballard talks about co-writing and producing Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill album, and his work with Dave Matthews, Aerosmith and Annie Lennox.

Richie Wise (Kiss producer, Dust)

Richie Wise (Kiss producer, Dust)Songwriter Interviews

Richie talks about producing the first two Kiss albums, recording "Brother Louie," and the newfound appreciation of his rock band, Dust.

Vanessa Carlton

Vanessa CarltonSongwriter Interviews

The "A Thousand Miles" singer on what she thinks of her song being used in White Chicks and how she captured a song from a dream.

Dave Pirner of Soul Asylum

Dave Pirner of Soul AsylumSongwriter Interviews

Dave explains how the video appropriated the meaning of "Runaway Train," and what he thought of getting parodied by Weird Al.

The Punk Photography of Chris Stein

The Punk Photography of Chris SteinSong Writing

Chris Stein of Blondie shares photos and stories from his book about the New York City punk scene.